Education
This is from Philip:
So my real question here is one that has no right
answer. I want to know which reform do you guys
things is better? Bush's proposal or the Democratic
proposal? Do you think that there's anything that can
be done that could stop or slow down the ridiculous
hike of costs for college? I think that this is
something that's relevant to everyone here, as I think
we all plan to attend college and the costs are only
increasing.
And here is the article he wants us to read.
Comment away!
UPDATE: Here's a new article about graduation rates in North Carolina.
The headline: Only 68% graduate on time in N.C.
So my real question here is one that has no right
answer. I want to know which reform do you guys
things is better? Bush's proposal or the Democratic
proposal? Do you think that there's anything that can
be done that could stop or slow down the ridiculous
hike of costs for college? I think that this is
something that's relevant to everyone here, as I think
we all plan to attend college and the costs are only
increasing.
And here is the article he wants us to read.
Comment away!
UPDATE: Here's a new article about graduation rates in North Carolina.
The headline: Only 68% graduate on time in N.C.
posted by Mr. G at 2/07/2007 08:56:00 PM
16 Comments:
I think the idea of cutting college loans is ridiculous. In the article the White House is quoted as saying that it wants to cut any ''excessive or unnecessary subsidies'' paid to student lenders. But to whom are these exessive or unnecessary? In many cases every penny of help that you can get makes a big difference in the ability to attend college or not. For a country that is so keen on education and learning I think it is ridiculous to cut student loans, because by doing so it makes getting an education beyond high school nearly impossible for some people - especially with the rising college tuitions.
The idea of cutting down on student loans IS a bad idea...under most circumstances. This article failed to give a reason WHY he's doing that. For all I know the reason could be a terrible one and Bush could just be losing his mind, but not stating a reason leaves the reader with only one point of view to follow, making it impossible to see the justice in it if there is any. I personally don't see any reason why he would do it, but then I nor anyone else in our class likely knows what goes on in government at his level and don't know about half the things going on in the country.
I have one question so I'll start with that, have student scholarships increased with the increasing tuition? Therefore, Bush's plan is to get rid of smaller banking or loaning companies, in the hope of creating "a government-run student loan monopoly in the direct lending program.” I think the Democrats and the Republicans are just fighting because that is what they always do. Democrats are taking the side of the poorer and less privileged and the Republicans looking for richer people's support. Neither side has provided substantial evidence that their plans will work, only speculation on both sides. I also want to say the source Philip found seemed to be a bit bias in favor of the democrats.
I agree with what everyone has said so far, especially what Rita said about how our country puts a big emphasis on education and then cuts funding to student loan programs. It seems backwards, to make a big deal out of getting a college education, and then make it harder for people to afford to go. It seems like it would be better to provide more funding for student loan programs, because I thought our country wanted to move forward through education, and supposedly you have to have at least a college degree to be considered well-educated. Boosting the Pell grants seems like it would be helpful to people who earn them, since you don't have to pay them back.
i dont think that the president should cut down on student loans. if a student comes from an under privleged family and is trying to get into a good college then he will be unable to even if he gets the loan because it wont cover up as much as it used to. so this student will have to settle with a less expensive college or not going to college at all. this of course isnt good because it creates another person who hasnt finished their education.
if the president cuts down on the student loans then it will create a more people who will have to settle for second rate jobs which will make more unemployed people and then the president will have to come up with a plan like this one to help all of the unemployed people jobs.
i think it would make sense for the government to give the colleges money to help pay the professors and make tuition less so more people could go to school. the hard decision would then be deciding which schools deserve money and which don't. if the government gave all the schools money which ones would get more than others. if the money was based on the student population, then all the big colleges would get bigger, while the smaller colleges would get smaller. people wouldn't want to attend a college that required more money.
I agree with Rita strongly. Why should Bush cut down student loans?? What is the point of goign to school and getting a good education to go to college, and then not having enough money to go? How many high quality jobs higher poor highschool graduates that couldnt/didnt go to college? Bush didnt say a reason, and that is a major factor in how im resonding to this current event. If he had stated why he was doing it, possibly my opinion would be different. If college tuitions are raising, the loans should be raising also.
I disagree with Rita. I don't believe that the country stresses education. If we did stress education as much as we should, we wouldn't have such a growing problem where our proletariat is being outpaced by foreign labour. This article, in addition to rising tuitions, just makes me believe that we as a country are falling behind in terms of educational importance.
ok i just have to post again cause i want to understand... jonathan, the country doesnt stress education? in america it is required that you go to school until at least the age of 16 - in lots of other countries they don't even have education requirements. in america we start education as young as 3 and 4 years old and if you don't have a highschool diploma you can't get a very good job or make much money. the more education you have the more job offerings and higher salaries are available to you. this is not stressing education? ... i think it is...
I'd hate to quote Stefan, but you only learn 5% of anything during High School. A High School education won't get you anything above a middle class job. In India, the common consensus is that in order to get a job you must have an advanced science or math degree. Sure in America we stress highschool level education, but we are falling behind in the other 95% of education.
the vast majority of jobs in india are provided by american outsourcing which are jobs that require little to no skill. and even if we are having difficulty educating our people how would it help in any way shape or form to cut the funding from those who at minimum want to have opportunity to get and "education" and although you may only learn 5% of your knowledge in high school, that is because the main goal of high school is to be taught to learn- not to become an advanced knoweledge based expert of your field. high school as well as college is based on gaining a foundation of knowledge and learning how to aquire knowledge. it is not until professional or graduate school that you learn particular skills applied to a certain job but in many jobs a lot of the learning comes from working the particular job, and having previous education only further promotes your ability to learn with speed and precision these skills needed to carry out these jobs. if education were not of upmost importance in our country we would not be standing most powerful country in the world. with the most advanced technology in any field or area you choose to debate about, we are the creators and inventors of the vast majority of the worlds products, and this is only accomplished with higher education.
Sure we require a highschool education, but our school systems aren't world-class. The India school system (both highschools and colleges ) ARE world-class. As for the claim that most outsourced jobs are low-skill is an ignorant one. Much of the high level programming used today by large corporations is done by India workers. Anything in a field that can be digitized (even medicine in some cases, 2nd opinions and such) can be outsourced and has a majority of the time. The time where a highschool education meant you could get a job in a middle class factory or some other low-skill job is gone. Chinese and Indian workers can do the same job with more productivity and more dexterity, for less. Now, they are "encroaching" on high skill jobs. The only solution to this is not to rely on the strength of the highschool system, but to make high-level education a priority in the Congress and in the Presidential Administration. Given this article, Bush seems to believe that education is a non-factor and a low priority issue. If we continue to neglect our education system, we will not be the most educated, we will not be the best in the world, we will be a developed 3rd country. A dumping ground for failed ideas and flawed systems.
while you make good points everything you say is based off of ''ifs'' if these arguements were true then all of the final comments about what our country ''would" be, would be true but they are not. even if we went along with this arguement, how would it make any sense to cut funding to those seeking this "worthless" education we provide? that would only continue to further hurt the situation not resolve it. the # 1 reason we began outsourcing was to pay unskilled workers very minimal money to do things americans dont want to do. in fact if you look up the word it will say almost just that (haha) if you want to argue about computer programming - who created these programs they are continuing to manufacture in countries that we outsource in? we did. not indians, americans "created" them. creation is key - as our type of education promotes creativity and ideas. other countries are of course more functional for the dollar and more productive because that is the demand of the area in which they live. so they are able to work more for less, but this does not negate that the ideas, inventions, and creations of the world do not come from this country and this education with which our country has provided us.
While Rita is right that education IS a high priority in our country, it is not as high a priority as it is in many other countries. I saw this thing on 20/20 probably 7 or 8 months ago on education and they were comparing our education (the public school system anyway) to other countries, mainly in Europe. Basically, the public school system in European countries was pretty much how our private schools are. They also mentioned how many Americans thought that more money would solve the problem but the fact is that in European countries that have less money, the schools also get less money and perform MUCH higher than our public schools and they also showed how some schools were filthy rich with money and there education was no better than the next school because all the money was going to recreational things like gyms and pools and fancy rooms. Also, my mom is a computer programmer and I've seen some of the people she works with. At least 1/3 of them are Indian, which is related to what Jon was saying. And also, the big companies, mainly Sony as far as I know, are Japanese companies or companies ofrom some other country. While all the advancement may be happening in America, it's the EDUCATED (not to be confused with illegal immigrants) people coming from other countries into America that are making all the advancement happen.
I agree with Terran. It is the educated people who make it happen. This raises the issue that if it's mostly the people from other country which advance American, what happens when the people streaming to America decide to come back, and detach their collective knowledge from this country; or even if they just decided not to come at all?
Well I am very happy at the increadible response that this got from everyone. I think Steve will be proud aswell, I'm also happy that everyone has a strong view on this since it has an impact on all of us.
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